High King Maulgar / Gruul

Postby Cadecus » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:51 pm

Nice vid cy. It addressed one of my main concerns. I am constantly watching the threat meter. I generate rage as a tank based on getting hit, so if i'm OTing gruul trying to compete with a bunch of aggro monkey's i'm basically gonna be heroic striking and sheild slamming trying desparately to fight for that second spot. Its a lot more difficult than it sounds, just watch OT threat generation in kara on 1 mob pulls like the specral waiters, i'm almost never second.
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Postby arthazard » Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:48 am

Cadecus wrote:Nice vid cy. It addressed one of my main concerns. I am constantly watching the threat meter. I generate rage as a tank based on getting hit, so if i'm OTing gruul trying to compete with a bunch of aggro monkey's i'm basically gonna be heroic striking and sheild slamming trying desparately to fight for that second spot. Its a lot more difficult than it sounds, just watch OT threat generation in kara on 1 mob pulls like the specral waiters, i'm almost never second.


you know if u mash your keys harder, you generate more threat...it's a proven fact!
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Postby Squatch » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:43 am

Jumping and having Squatch in the raid are both 5% dmg increases, and they stack. So more threat!
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Postby Cyrix » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:56 am

Some other useful tips. It seems that last night our main problem was healing but also Shatters. It is not hard to look at your Deadly Boss Mods box and position urself in a way that you won't kill a healer or the MT. 6 people near the MT on a shatter is unacceptable. Dying to a cave in is also unacceptable. SPREAD OUT and try to run back to the spot u were in.

Put some raid icons over the healers heads. Basically our rule is: see icon, run the other way.
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Postby Tuttle » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:02 pm

Well being as that was my first time there, I learned a whole lot. I was not aware that you could have up to 4 people in the box and not get killed at shatter. The one time Bo and I got smashed was cause when I came down from the slam I landed on Bo and could not get away before being stoned and then of course killing us both. Also I was trying to stay as far back from the middle of the room to avoid as much as possible and had a few problems with healing range. After looking at the diagram I see that I can stand in farther just make sure that I have enough distance between me and the next person. There is no guarantee that when you go into the air you don't land on someone, so I don't see how that is avoidable sometimes. I will strive to do better next time.
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Postby Jaana » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:16 pm

The ground slam launches people in random directions. When you land, you get a few seconds to spread out again. If you have at least 8k health, you can survive getting close to 3-4 people (assuming they are not right on top of you). Should that happen, it will be up to you to bandage/pot as healers will be focused on the MT and OT. As the Gruul fight can gets inceasingly intensive for healers, nobody should expect a heal except for the MT and OT. You will want to keep your HP above 3k just in case you get caught in a cave-in.

Spreadng out right from the get out helps to minimize problems. Many strats suggest positioning some ranged dps against the walls. Those folks have a better chance of flying into a wall during a ground slam, which gives everyone in the raid an idea of where some people will be and where they need to stay away from.
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Postby Cadecus » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:37 pm

Everyone should re check the diagram of gruul's cave cyrix posted onthe previous page. Ranged DPS needs to be against the wall, squatch was saying he didn't get thrown random directions when he was close to the white circle hiding spots. If all goes well ranged dps should never get shattered. Healers stand a bit closer to gruul in their respective group clock faces. Based on the spacing, its possible for a healer and one of the melee dps (rogues/feral druids) to get shattered, but they should never be stacking shatter with a mage/hunter/lock on the periphery of the cave. 2 stack shatter anyone in the raid should be able to survive. Melee dps should NEVER be next to gruul after the ground slam because you will invariably stack shatters on the MT and OT, being me and sylare. There were several attempts where sylare and I got 5 or 6 shatters stacked by melee dps = our health goes to 7k = 1 shot by gruul. Rogues and cloakzore and better postion themselves, if you are a non tanking feral druid you need to stay away too. Its true we did pull in people who were either completely new to the fight or were serving different rolls than before. I don't think the fight is a dps issue any longer, we got him in the low 40's with some of our heavy dpsers dead at the onset.

Keep in mind too that Sylare and I cannot keep gruul stationary in the middle of the room. He is gonna be moved in the light blue circle in the middle of the cave on cyrix's diagram because of the cave ins, which become more frequent and do increasing damage with each grow. This requires everyone to have awareness of where they are in respect to their clockface.

I've read additional posts saying that the Gruul fight can have some unpredictable issues like him ignoring the 2nd on aggro melee (ie hateful strike soaker) and randomly whacking a rogue to death or deciding to whack the MT. I can attest to him hateful striking me being 1st on teh aggro list and with sylare right next to me. Shit like that i guess there is nothing you can do about.

We need to stay the course, we'll get this done soon enough. Raid makeup is also somewhat of an issue right now and we need more dedicated healers. As I see it currently Airin, Tuttle, Meadow, aflix, and raiguy are the only full on healing specced people we have who consistently raid (jaana is on a short hiatus). If i'm missing someone I apologize, but as it stands, I don't think its enough.
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Postby Cyrix » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:48 pm

Thats why we need more healers up in LB.

Healing hybrids don't work, unless you are like Sylare and still have +1400 in healing gear.
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Postby Sylare » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:56 pm

If you are a hybrid class that can perform alternate roles, it is expected that you bring healing/tank gear to every raid, as it may become necessary for you to heal/tank.

If you rolled a hybrid and do not expect to ever heal/tank:

a. Reroll pure DPS.
b. Do not expect raid slots.

I am a Druid and I place the same level of importance on healing gear as I do on tanking and dps gear.
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Postby Jaana » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:08 pm

Cyrix wrote:Thats why we need more healers up in LB.

Healing hybrids don't work, unless you are like Sylare and still have +1400 in healing gear.


While we do need more healers, we also need more people to become skilled with healing in general.

All hybrids classes should be carrying gear to support all of their potential roles and should be able to cover multiple roles as needed (i.e. pallies should have healing and tanking gear, shamans carry heal and dps gear). Many hybrids can perfom secondary roles with the proper gear. Hybrids should not be passing up gear that they can use for a secondary purpose if it will become a shard otherwise.

As Sylare pointed out, it kinda defeats the purpose of playing a hybrid and limits your utility in a raid if you can only play it one way.
Scientists are always looking to answer two questions:

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2. Who cares?

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Pyrowiz 70 Mage: Enchant 300/Tailor 365 (Spellfire, Scryer)
Qwikhit 69 Warrior: Herb 375/Alchemy 360
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Postby Cyrix » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:34 pm

Some useful tips on Gruul that might help:

A) Give the healers raids symbols: That way if you get bounced and there is one near you, you won't kill him/her.

B) Have a Druid (Bear Tank) OT Gruul - Better thread generation. If we don't have a Druid OT, then a pop a Shammy with WF to help the OT out.

C) Assign a healer on the hurtful strike tank.
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Postby Tolvin » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:25 am

Here are a few things I found that I think could be helpful in our next attempt at Gruul. Some of you guys may already know these but they were news to me.

1. All gruuls damage dealt is physical so everyone should have Amp Magic buff.

2. For KTM users, you must be very careful as to how
you approach the meters as melee. Shatter damage dealt
will increase your threat on this system. Omen/Threat
1.0 users are safe.

3. I don't know a whole lot about mages so this may or may not be useful...Every mage in your raid should have a spec capable of gaining advantage from fire vulnerability debuff (ImpScorch), at least one mage
take the task to refresh this debuff.

4. Not sure how useful this point is but I found it to be interesting and thought I would throw it out there...Any Dreamless Sleep type potion will freeze a Stomp victim in mid air, preventing him from flying towards
the rest of the raid. This should be used in the event of someone getting caught out of position, or a "all flung into the center" scenario. One thing to remember with this however, is that the range of Shatter includes vertical range, so a person using the sleep potion has to time it at the highest point possible to avoid people below them.
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Postby Raptordan » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:53 pm

Every mage in your raid should have a spec capable of gaining advantage from fire vulnerability debuff (ImpScorch), at least one mage
take the task to refresh this debuff.


lol what fire mage do we have. dafoo is only one
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Postby Squatch » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:25 pm

I wish I could be fire
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Re: High King Maulgar / Gruul

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